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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/19/12 1:28:30 PM
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MulliganMan
Posts: 8155
Joined: 05/14/05
From: Cary, NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LG
quote:
ORIGINAL: Weirfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: SHUFF
I say he does make it to the Hall of Fame. Maybe not first vote, but the guy could pitch.
I'd bet against it.....
Bonds, Sosa, McGuire, Clemens .....don't get in IMO.
yes he could pitch and the other could hit home runs, easy to dominant when you have that unfair advantage, it's the reason records and medals are stripped from those who get caught.
While, he may have been found not guilty of lying to Congress, I bet there are enough who believe that he is still guilty of using PEDS ( there is more than enough evidence) and that will prevent him from getting voted into the hall IMO.
Like all the others listed his accomplishments now lack credibility and are meaningless ( except maybe to him)
Weirfan - would you please cite ONE piece of credible evidence.
The irony of this case is that Andy Pettitte testified that he did take a few HGH shots to Congress, Clemens testified that his wife had an HGH shot to Congress, and he repeatedly stated he did not. Remember there was no penalty and nothing to gain with his testimony. Has Pettitte's admission of taking a few shots in the early 2000's marred his career- NO. The bottom line is there was really nothing for Clemens to gain by lying.
The real issue was a report within MLB which many in the business already knew was a crock and biased. The bias and the reason it was controversial was the report accused a number of teams, but gave the NY Yankees a free pass. Someone(s) with a lot of influence accomplished what they desired - take the attention off of a report which was under scrutiny and was rapidly becoming an embarrassment to some powerful people in New York and MLB.
Mission accomplished, job well done and I am sure a few campaign accounts, etc., benefited greatly.
Actually there was a severe penalty and lots to "gain" with his testimony or lack there of. If he was using steroids and told the truth he could kiss his reputation, endorsements, future income, and the HOF goodbye. If he chose to say nothing (plead the 5th) he would have been looked at in the same light as McGuire...saying nothing = guilty. I don't know if he was lying or not, but I could see why someone in his position would do so if they had indeed used PED's.
I don't think it was a waste of taxpayers money to try Clemens, I think it was a waste of money for Congress to get involved in the first place which led to the Clemens trial. But if the gov't suspects someone committed perjury they HAVE to prosecute. I know a lot of people say..."but members of Congress lie all the time, how hypocritical of them to prosecute someone for lying to them about doing PED's". The thing is that the members of Congress are not under oath with their daily lies. If a member of Congress was testifying in front of Congress under oath and lied they would be prosecuted too...even the president would. 
I followed the 2nd trial fairly close and IMO it seemed like everyone on both sides were lying. It was more about finding the grains of truth between all of the lies going back and forth. 
_____________________________
"If you want to know the truth, everything you need is inside you"
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/19/12 5:32:35 PM
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LG
Posts: 6561
Joined: 11/28/01
Status: online
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quote:
Actually there was a severe penalty and lots to "gain" with his testimony or lack there of. If he was using steroids and told the truth he could kiss his reputation, endorsements, future income, and the HOF goodbye. If he chose to say nothing (plead the 5th) he would have been looked at in the same light as McGuire...saying nothing = guilty. I don't know if he was lying or not, but I could see why someone in his position would do so if they had indeed used PED's.
I don't think it was a waste of taxpayers money to try Clemens, I think it was a waste of money for Congress to get involved in the first place which led to the Clemens trial. But if the gov't suspects someone committed perjury they HAVE to prosecute.
First, there has never been an accusation that Clemens used steroids. The question has revolved around HGH and was not raised until McNamee said he gave RC shots when McNamee faced Federal charges.
I agree that perjury should be prosecuted. But, when the evidence is clear the only individual supporting the charge of perjury is clearly committing perjury and there is no other supporting evidence, then you need to move on. You can be sure the Feds spend a great deal of time and money looking for any possible clue or link to support their case. Do you think key members of the congressional committee were uninformed about McNamee or the lack of evidence? Why force a case to prosecution when you know there is no supporting evidence.
There is motive and money behind such action.
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/19/12 7:45:11 PM
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Weirfan
Posts: 10,000+
Joined: 01/22/04
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Baseball Hall of Fame Must Have Steroid Era Wing
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47877888/
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My wife has been missing for a week and the Police told me to expect the worst...........so I had to go down to Goodwill and get all her clothes back
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/19/12 9:15:07 PM
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TheWoat
Posts: 745
Joined: 04/13/07
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGHv3l2s6B4
I remember Roger losing his fastball, then getting it back..hmmm
J/k.
I think Roger and Bonds get into the HOF eventually because they were HOFers who used later in their careers, they didnt need to "juice".
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/20/12 6:58:39 AM
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inconsistant
Posts: 8952
Joined: 11/12/02
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The Woat wrote: "I think Roger and Bonds get into the HOF eventually because they were HOFers who used later in their careers, they didnt need to "juice".
Personally, I think the verdict was the right one. In this country, it still is, "innocent until proven guilty". He simply wasn't proven guilty therefore, according to the law, he remains innocent.
As to the HOF, my opinion is, PEDS may prolong a career or give someone an edge in strength. However, it has no effect on one's ability to execute their task; meaning you still have to hit the target as a pitcher and you still have to put the bat on the ball at precisely the right spot. All the HGH in the world won't help with that.
If Clemens was throwing 120 mph heaters and Bonds and company were jacking dingers into the parking lot, those who oppose their induction into the HOF would have a point. Personally, I think they should be inducted.
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/20/12 7:35:11 AM
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JSmith1
Posts: 2394
Joined: 11/01/03
From: The Treasure Coast, FL
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LG
I wonder how many of you really read any details of this case? If he had been convicted it would have been on the word of Brian McNamee. McNamee had already been found lying repeatedly and even his former wife testified that a number of things McNamee said on the stand were not true.
Want to know a bit more about McNamee, information the prosecution did not tell you? Of course, the defense as covered in the OP's link discloses, "Hardin also got McNamee to admit he manipulated a dead body while he was a New York police officer."
McNamee and date rape
The "physical" DNA evidence was a 7 year old beer can of needles which included a bunch of needles from a variety of people. McNamee testified the needles were all from "ballplayers," but this was another area where he changed his story.
Andy Pettitte made it clear that it was very possible that the comment Clemens made to him may have been about his wife. This was nothing new as this had been acknowledged by Andy Pettitte previously. Everyone knew that Debbie Clemens had received an HGH shot because this was a part of Roger Clemens testimony to Congress.
There was simply no case against Clemens and would have never been except that McNamee knew this was his ticket to escape federal prosecution.
For while now, since the inundation of mass and social media even more than ever, the arm chair quarter back and mass public in general let biased come out and jump on the guilty train wether they really know the facts or not. That's the society we live in now.
Of course those same people would demand due process if something happened to them where they would need the justice system to prove their innocence.
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Don’t let perfect get in the way of better…..
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/20/12 8:06:42 AM
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Weirfan
Posts: 10,000+
Joined: 01/22/04
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JSmith1
For while now, since the inundation of mass and social media even more than ever, the arm chair quarter back and mass public in general let biased come out and jump on the guilty train wether they really know the facts or not. That's the society we live in now.
Of course those same people would demand due process if something happened to them where they would need the justice system to prove their innocence.
there is definitely truth in your statement.....
OJ and Casey Anthony were incorrectly presumed guilty by many as well
_____________________________
My wife has been missing for a week and the Police told me to expect the worst...........so I had to go down to Goodwill and get all her clothes back
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/20/12 8:07:08 AM
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bamabasher
Posts: 584
Joined: 02/16/11
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Can somebody remind me why congress even cared about this in the first place?
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RE: Roger Clemens found not guilty - 06/20/12 8:35:37 AM
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przero
Posts: 1048
Joined: 11/30/06
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bamabasher
Can somebody remind me why congress even cared about this in the first place?
It was a slow day in the U.S.. We had no other pressing problems. They had just fixed the economy, repaired the Social Security dilemma, worked out the illegal immigration solution, and solved the Middle East Crisis. All that was left was Global Warming and PED use in MLB, so they took on the toughest of those 2.
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