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My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 5:34:03 AM
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Babaganoosh
Posts: 754
Joined: 08/23/04
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It has been a long time since I really did a thorough self-fitting on myself. 1998, maybe? :)
I think this might be interesting to talk about as I go.
I know my lie angles, I pretty much know my swingweights in steel and graphite. I have a frequency meter and know the CPMs of what I build, but I'm less sure of the right CPM than of the other specs.
Ever since I started experimenting away from my 1998 results I've been sort of wandering. You know how it goes, you have a honeymoon with the new clubs, it ends, you pick up the old clubs, you do better. Try some different new clubs, have a honeymoon, etc. etc. Eventually it's chaos. :)
My 1998 fitting involved all the main steel shafts at the time, and I ended up with Dynalite R. Actually Dynalite S won the shootout, but I later realized it was because I was swinging for the fences. This is a constant problem for me with trying clubs. It's much different on a range or monitor than on a course. So anyway, I dialed back to Dynalite R for the course, and played those a long time. One of my two main sets even today is Dynalite R.
I'm 5'9" with 32" wrist to floor (longish arms). Age mid 50s. Not very strong. My 6 iron SS on the course is low 70s. It takes a pure strike to hit it 150. (30ยบ head). I'm a sweeper, but I don't hit fat or thin. I do hit the ball first with a slightly descending impact. But not much shaft lean at impact, so the ball goes high. My swing is a three quarters swing, with a quick transition, quick tempo, medium release. Swing path is in-out (basically straight) and ball flight is extremely straight.
Next post: What I play, what I'm going to be testing, what my goals are.
Comments and general kibitzing are welcome.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 6:52:45 AM
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Babaganoosh
Posts: 754
Joined: 08/23/04
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A few years I ago I decided that I needed overlength short irons, to fit my posture and swing. I was probably wrong, or I should say, it was an ill-conceived swing band-aid. Anyway, this led me to try two single length iron sets, one graphite, one steel, each at 36.5"/D0. I couldn't do anything with them, the 5 & 6 irons went too short and low.
I should mention that iron play is not my strong suit. Driver and woods are. My short iron play is okay, but I seldom hit a quality 6 iron, and pretty much have given up on 5 irons.
Next I built two or three sets with 1/4" length intervals, with the 9 iron at 36.5". One of the attractions was that I was keeping shaft weights and MOIs (whatever they might have been) in tighter bands. And that is supposed to be good, right? 
Along the way I have tried MOI-matched sets. No difference for me.
Then I decided because I'm a short but generally straight hitter, I would go overlength with normal 1/2" length intervals. This did not lead to improvement in the dreaded mid irons, no surprise there.
Most of my sets have used the Wishon 752TC. I like them. Their offset and sole design suits me very well. And I like the weight port when building the set. I've also used a similar Snake Eyes iron.
My two current sets:
Snake Eyes MS Viper heads, UST RV2 75R graphites at the 1/4" intervals. 7 iron is 300 cpm at 37".
752 heads, Dynalite R, 1/2" intervals and overlength. 7 iron is 314 cpm at 37.5".
Two quite different sets. The graphites seem to give more consistent rounds but with more dispersion on good swings. The Dynalites are more accurate on good swings but are either too stiff or heavy or both, they have more bad swings.
My WTF measurement has always put me at a 37.5" five iron. And I used to play that. I'm pretty sure I'm going back to that. Longer clubs have not helped my game.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 7:16:48 AM
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Babaganoosh
Posts: 754
Joined: 08/23/04
Status: offline
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I have found with certainty that in woods, I do better with a firm shaft and non-soft tip. I like the one-piece feel as opposed to the kicky type of shafts. In irons, those one-piece shafts are harder to find for low swing speeds. I'm talking about higher bend point, stiffer tip shafts. So I've been plugging away with soft tip shafts. Now I'm finally going to re-visit that in this fitting.
One thing I have found it that because I like a bit of offset, with soft tips and my swing the offset does its job of hitting higher. This happens because the head's COG wants to move in line with the shaft. And it does, leading to higher loft at impact. I hit high balls, especially with short irons. Partly due to swing style, for sure. But also partly due to head and shaft design. I've tested it with a more player style clubhead on the UST shaft, and it went lower. But not low. More like just right.
I look at those high shots and figure I'm leaving some yards on the table. If I can convert some of that rainbow to going forward instead of up, there should be some gain? I think less offset would help. So would stronger lofts. But you know what, these soft tip shafts just don't feel right, I don't think.
Or do they? That's what I will be trying to test. I'm looking for the shaft that leads to consistent contact, tight dispersion, and hopefully better trajectory and distance.
I've ordered two more 752 seven irons. And will be testing these shafts:
UST RV2 75R
Dynalite R
Hump R
DG SL R300
TWGT Black 85 S graphite
FST 115 Pro A/R
If testing is promising for the Hump or for graphite, I'll order these from Value Golf:
Hump S
MCS 75 Blue R
I won't bother with Rifles, PX, DG, etc. I've never liked any of them. Probably too stout.
I did mention in another thread, the TT ShaftFit thing on their website says I should play DG S300. No way I'm going that stout.
I ordered S flex on the Wishon black shaft because of the profile CPMs in the catalog. Soft butt, stiff tip. I hope they have it right, they have so many cut and paste errors in their catalogs, year after year, it is risky to rely on what they print. You'd think they would get a handle on it eventually, but they don't. Anyway it is a $22 experiment.
I also ordered an 870ti head to try after I have a shaft winner.
I guess that about sums it up. I will be several days till I have most of the parts. I do have the Hump already shafted, so I might have something to report soon on that.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 10:45:00 AM
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Badshaft
Posts: 1112
Joined: 07/18/06
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Hey that is pretty cool...
I have a lot of the same issues you have...Long arms with a WTF of 32...
It is funny that I also drive the ball great and play fairway woods and hybrids great. The biggest issue with my game is irons namely mid/long irons...Kills my scoring to no end...
I also have an ongoing experiment...So I am interested in how yours turns out...
I tried some graphite shafts in some irons and they just hasn't worked...Now my next move is going to be Hump "S"
I have played the "R" considerable amount in SL and I can hit those as high as anything out there...
I have weighted some iron heads 4,5,6 to match a 7 iron and playing those 4 the same length... We will see how it goes...
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 10:57:03 AM
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Release
Posts: 8164
Joined: 04/04/08
From: Washington
Status: online
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Hi Guys,
If you play your mid to long irons decently with golf balls on the tee, you might just have the lie angle issue.
I too, have a flatter swing plane and pick the golf balls up without much shaft lean, hence the higher ball flight just like you. I played the longer irons much better with the lie angles adjusted.
Still count on the 3 irons from 195-200 yards carried more often than the hybrids or the 5 wood.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 3:42:53 PM
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Babaganoosh
Posts: 754
Joined: 08/23/04
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Release, I have fitted my lies off a lie board. But I will think about what you said because I've had issues with my posture on irons. So maybe my lie fitting reflects a flawed swing.
I went to the range and will post something a little later. Dinner is ready!
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 3:50:50 PM
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Release
Posts: 8164
Joined: 04/04/08
From: Washington
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Babaganoosh
Release, I have fitted my lies off a lie board. But I will think about what you said because I've had issues with my posture on irons. So maybe my lie fitting reflects a flawed swing.
I went to the range and will post something a little later. Dinner is ready!
LOL...
My posture at address changes all the time depending on how my body feels that day.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 3:53:19 PM
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elvis56
Posts: 5162
Joined: 04/25/03
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I kinda fall into your category,too. I'll be interested in your results.
The MCS 75 is a stiffer tip shaft? I may try one myself.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 4:34:32 PM
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Christian P
Posts: 1450
Joined: 07/17/10
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I use an oversized head with a low center of gravity to get the distance. I know you with think i'm a smart ass, but try out the great big Bertha tungsten titanium irons.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 4:54:01 PM
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Release
Posts: 8164
Joined: 04/04/08
From: Washington
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Christian P
I use an oversized head with a low center of gravity to get the distance. I know you with think i'm a smart ass, but try out the great big Bertha tungsten titanium irons.
Christian, your persistence had peak my curiosity, I will try my wife's GBB TT irons with senior graphite shafts next week if I have a chance.
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 5:26:36 PM
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Babaganoosh
Posts: 754
Joined: 08/23/04
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Ok, range results. Not what I expected.
I had four test 7i clubs. The first one, I forgot to mention above.
1. DG Lite, 37" D0 304 cpm.
2. Dynalite as mentioned above. C8 or C9.
3. UST as mentioned above. D0.
4. Hump R, 37.5" D0.
There was a strong slice cross wind, so everything moved to the right. Even so, I think the Hump was going right on its own. It didn't feel bad or even that different to me.
Trajectory was about the same on all clubs. If anything, the DGL was higher, which I remember from the past. My original mission will probably be a dead end, but there is plenty of fitting to be done....
Now for the fitting puzzle. The 3 steel shafts all tended to have toe hits. The heaviest and stoutest one, the Dynalite, had nothing but toe hits. The Hump was a little better, and the DGL better yet but still out towards the toe. However, release-wise, the steel shafts tended to strike the ball in the right spot of the downswing, and made good divots in the right place.
The UST graphite tended to hit in the center of the face but had a lot of thin hits. So the release was mis-timed. This is my gripe about that set, they just don't feel right timing wise.
I don't think the toe hits are a matter of distance from the ball. I think the clubs are a little too heavy and lead me to do something that causes the toe hit. I stand the same with the graphites, and hit the center. ie Weight matters, which is a point of fitting. Based on my play with the sets, it's not a complete surprise. But now I have to come up with something that I can hit in the center of the face, at the right moment of the downswing. I have tried different swingweights in the past and always came back to about D0.
Where to go from here? My first try is going to be adding lead tape to the graphite, to D2-D3, and see how it changes the thin hits. Then I suppose try the DGL at a lighter swingweight? I went through a great fitting back in the mid 90s, and saw first-hand how the different clubs caused changes in the impact location and solidness. BTW that fitting put me into D3 graphites. (Homer Simpson: Doh!)
There is also the possibility that this is a general swing flaw in action. This is tough.
EDIT TO ADD: After working on my swing at home in the mirror, it is a swing flaw first and foremost. And something I've been working on. I'll work on it some more and try the test clubs again in a few days.
< Message edited by Babaganoosh -- 04/29/12 6:27:11 PM >
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RE: My self-fitting project diary (irons) - 04/29/12 5:27:07 PM
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Christian P
Posts: 1450
Joined: 07/17/10
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I think they lack some feel, but I can hit the 3, 4, 5, and 6 irons a country mile.
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