quote:

"The fact is the player is allowed to put his club behind the ball, otherwise he would never be allowed to address his ball in any circumstance. As soon as any player puts his club on the grass behind the ball, then the grass will be flattened," he says. "The issue is, is there excessive pressing down with the club?" In other words, was there intent? "Looking at this, I don't think Kenny Perry did use excessive pressure when he put his club behind the ball. It does look bad, it does look like the lie was improved but, as long as there was no intent to do so, and I don't think there was, then it is not a penalty."

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ORIGINAL: Funk#49

quote:

"The fact is the player is allowed to put his club behind the ball, otherwise he would never be allowed to address his ball in any circumstance. As soon as any player puts his club on the grass behind the ball, then the grass will be flattened," he says. "The issue is, is there excessive pressing down with the club?" In other words, was there intent? "Looking at this, I don't think Kenny Perry did use excessive pressure when he put his club behind the ball. It does look bad, it does look like the lie was improved but, as long as there was no intent to do so, and I don't think there was, then it is not a penalty."

Discuss.

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ORIGINAL: Funk#49

If there's one thing I learned from you Atticus it is the treatment of intent by the ROG. I posted this to hear your opinion on Paramor's statement and also what others might have to say about it. It certainly seems both erroneous and unfortunate to me.

In the interest of full disclosure and to establish context here's the full story - http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/may/17/golf-kenny-perry-cheating-scandal

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ORIGINAL: golfisa4letterword

I know a guy with so much nervous energy he bounces the club off the ground behind the ball, does it improve his lie? at times, absolutely. Is he trying to improve his lie? Certainly not.


What about a player who never soles his club prior to a shot, soles the club in the rough thus improving his lie? Is he cheating?

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13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
· the position or lie of his ball,
· the area of his intended stance or swing,
· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:
· pressing a club on the ground,
· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
· removing dew, frost or water.

However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
· in fairly taking his stance,
· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

13-2/12 Player Presses Down Sand Behind Ball in Grounding Club
Q. In addressing his ball through the green, a player grounded his club on sand behind the ball and in so doing pressed down the sand, thereby improving the lie of the ball. What is the ruling?

A. Except in a hazard, Rule 13-2 permits a player to ground his club lightly behind the ball. If the club was grounded only lightly, there is no breach of Rule 13-2 or any other Rule. However, if the club was pressed on the ground, the player was in breach of Rule 13-2.

18-2b/5 When Club Grounded in Grass
Q. When is a club considered grounded in long grass?

A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club.

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ORIGINAL: Persimmon

quote:

13-2. Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play

A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
· the position or lie of his ball,
· the area of his intended stance or swing,
· his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
· the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:
· pressing a club on the ground,
· moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
· creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
· removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
· removing dew, frost or water.

However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:
· in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,
· in fairly taking his stance,
· in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,
· in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground (Rule 11-1) or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or
· on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1).

13-2/12 Player Presses Down Sand Behind Ball in Grounding Club
Q. In addressing his ball through the green, a player grounded his club on sand behind the ball and in so doing pressed down the sand, thereby improving the lie of the ball. What is the ruling?

A. Except in a hazard, Rule 13-2 permits a player to ground his club lightly behind the ball. If the club was grounded only lightly, there is no breach of Rule 13-2 or any other Rule. However, if the club was pressed on the ground, the player was in breach of Rule 13-2.

18-2b/5 When Club Grounded in Grass
Q. When is a club considered grounded in long grass?

A. When the grass is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club.

Did he press his club down more than necessary to ground it? There's no requirement that the club be gently lowered onto the turf -- you can't slam it down, but you can drop it, even fairly briskly.

I haven't seen any video. If he pounded the turf more forcefully than he usually does when grounding his club, then I'd find a violation of 13-2. Otherwise ...