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Rules question - 05/22/06 11:56:12 AM
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GLFTPS
Posts: 7434
Joined: 10/15/03
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This happened recently. A player laid a club down along his feet and stepped back to check his alignment. He picked his club up and the hit the shot. I know this OK by the rules (8-2-a) but one guy asked, " What if there was dew on the ground?" Since this would leave a line, is it legal in one situation and illegal in another???
< Message edited by GLFTPS -- 05/22/06 12:04:00 PM >
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RE: Rules question - 05/22/06 12:18:39 PM
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St.Andrews
Posts: 1043
Joined: 03/18/06
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quote:
8-2a/1 Club Placed on Ground to Align FeetQ. A player places a club on the ground parallel to the line of play to assist him in aligning his feet properly. Is this permissible?
A. Yes, provided the player removes the club before playing his stroke. Otherwise, a breach of Rule 8-2a would occur.
As the Rules allow a player to lay down a club to align the feet before the stroke, he will not be in breach of Rule 13-2 in doing so, when there's dew on the grass.
quote:
13-2/35 Removal of Dew or Frost
Q. The removal of dew or frost from the area immediately behind or to the side of a player’s ball is not permitted. Such action is deemed to improve the position or lie of the ball or the area of the player’s intended swing and is a breach of Rule 13-2, unless it occurs incidentally to some other action permitted under the Rules, such as in addressing the ball or removing loose impediments.
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RE: Rules question - 05/22/06 2:19:15 PM
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Persimmon
Posts: 10,000+
Joined: 03/06/03
From: Carolina
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Not to appear to be picking on you, St. Andrews, but I question whether Dec. 8-2a/1 confers blanket approval for laying a club down. I don't think that decision contemplates the situation where a line would be left on the ground, continuing to indicate the line of play after the club has been removed.
quote:
8-2 Indicating Line of Play
a. Other Than on Putting Green
Except on the putting green , a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.
13-2 Improving Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:
• the position or lie of his ball,
• the area of his intended stance or swing,
• his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or
• the area in which he is to drop or place a ball,
by any of the following actions:
• moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed (including immovable obstructions and objects defining out of bounds),
• creating or eliminating irregularities of surface,
• removing or pressing down sand, loose soil, replaced divots or other cut turf placed in position, or
• removing dew, frost or water.
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RE: Rules question - 05/22/06 3:20:19 PM
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kdtoyne
Posts: 5497
Joined: 10/31/02
Status: online
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Does he do this only when there is dew? Intent might be the issue.
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RE: Rules question - 05/22/06 4:52:12 PM
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atticusfinch
Posts: 3999
Joined: 04/15/01
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kdtoyne
Does he do this only when there is dew? Intent might be the issue.
Read the rule quoted by persimmon. Nothing in it about intent. If you make a mark, you breach the rule. You can save yourself by erasing the mark, which, although it removes dew, is not a breach of 13-2 because it is incidental to removing the mark.
< Message edited by atticusfinch -- 05/23/06 7:27:43 AM >
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RE: Rules question - 05/22/06 11:30:12 PM
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St.Andrews
Posts: 1043
Joined: 03/18/06
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This is a very interesting question, and I've just send it to R&A to get their opinion on this.
quote:
Question:
A player lay a club down along his feet and steps back to check his alignment.
He picks his club up and then hits the shot.
8-2a allows this, but what if there’s dew on the ground?
I shortened the question a bit, but added a link to the thread.
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RE: Rules question - 05/23/06 4:30:00 AM
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atticusfinch
Posts: 3999
Joined: 04/15/01
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quote:
ORIGINAL: St.Andrews
This is a very interesting question, and I've just send it to R&A to get their opinion on this.
quote:
Question:
A player lay a club down along his feet and steps back to check his alignment.
He picks his club up and then hits the shot.
8-2a allows this, but what if there’s dew on the ground?
I shortened the question a bit, but added a link to the thread.
I think the question is incomplete..."...but what if there's dew on the ground and the alignment mark remains in the dew."
Just my humble suggestion. Maybe you could followup?
< Message edited by atticusfinch -- 05/23/06 7:30:30 AM >
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RE: Rules question - 05/23/06 4:47:15 AM
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St.Andrews
Posts: 1043
Joined: 03/18/06
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: atticusfinch
I think the question is incomplete..."...but what if there's dew on the ground and the alignment mark remains in the dew."
Just my humble suggestion. Maybe you could followup?
Have done so now.
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